Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

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greyhoundgames
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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92790Post greyhoundgames
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:17 pm

Bill has a jpg for every occasion.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92793Post Alex_brunius
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:16 am

Sir Garnet wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:49 pm
Is Pakistan breaking away automatically on Indian independence without a chance to counter intended vanilla or part of the mod? Useful info for future games.

Would have avoided independence in that case as it is a big economic hit and strategic weak spot as it turned out, rather than having the mountain frontier with Afghanistan. turned out to be more of a strategic problem than I thought at first. At least PAK raised some troops for the fight when invaded.

Thanks

Sir Garnet
Not anything changed in the mod. As far as I understand Pakistan will be released if Raj has done the NF "Two-Nation Theory", so basically it creates a trade off ( if player controlled Raj ) where you can speed up your progress towards independence as well as lower the manpower penalties from "Marginalized Muslim Community" by promising the Muslims their own nation once you gain independence:

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/British_R ... focus_tree

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92810Post Sir Garnet
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:48 pm

Which mod version would you suggest for a fresh game? 0.3?

Thanks.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92845Post Alex_brunius
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm

Sir Garnet wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:48 pm
Which mod version would you suggest for a fresh game? 0.3?

Thanks.
That's the most recent one.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92898Post aphrochine
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am

So Alex, we just finished a hell of a long game. I'm at work, so I cant dig up some key stats on the game, Bill is our resident statman here. But we ended in late 1947 after a success invasion of Nationalist Spain, successive spears into the eurasian underbelly at Sinai and Kuwait to go along with the long grindy war across 1000's of miles along the interior of central asia.

Let's give some feedbacks!! My thoughts...


Air War: One of the issues everyone faced was the whack-a-mole air war. Even though the USAAF had profound numerical superiority, I was spread all around the globe and often needed to migrate my focus to grain sufficient air superiority for nukes. Even with the ramp up time, it was often too difficult of the Axis Air Marshal (Unbutu iirc) to see shift in my Air Power and respond before it was too late and nukes had landed.

Off the top of your head, is there a defines value to account for the rate of increase in Effeciency based on re targeting air wings?? I ask, because the issue really came from having too little time to rebase aircraft. It became a game of range and airfield positioning for the guys on defense.

Also, I think Operational Integrity gives too much advantage. The USAAF just massacred technologically superior Luftwaffe throughout the war, using numbers and really high agility ratings. In most cases, the Luftwaffe needed a 1000+ plane advantage to see parity in kill:death ratios.


Nukes: Nukes serve far more of a purpose as a tactical weapon. Dropping War Support really doesnt do much. I'll let Greyhound ellaborate, which he has already. But now the war is over, he can offer up more on the subject I think.

Gibraltar: I think Gibraltar needs to be modelled better. As of now, it's impossible to hold as the geography isnt represented. Generally speaking...high risk, small force operations are pretty not modelled in the game well. I always envisioned a fight over the Rock would be between a couple thousand German commandos and the defending garrison. It would involve all manner of special tactics, from frogmen, to paras and special water born equipments.

Absent this, I think the best bet we could go for would be to offer up either a single province connection which would reduce the width to 90...or even better and make that single connection a cross-water connection, turning the single attack vector into an amphib. I would have to imagine that any successful attack on Gib would require the absence of the RN.

Air Regions: Some Regions are ridiculous. As we both not, that probably wont be addressed in MtG. I could work on redrawing some SRs. I could probably set it up as a separate mod and you could incorporate if you like it. This would take a while, I dont have much free time.



I'm sure there is more, but it's still early where I'm at and my brain is fully running.

Thank you Alex!! You're mod does a great job, and I'm pretty sure we would not have been afforded a 1948 game if not for it.
Image


"A good plan, violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." -Patton
"...a bad plan, is always a bad plan." -aphro

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92906Post Bill
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:35 pm

Hi Alex,

Here are some observations from a German player's perspective.
greyhoundgames wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:47 am
I just noticed that oil and rubber synthetics are changed. Not sure when this happened if its alex or alex 2 but

There is a seperate building for both oil and rubber. The oil one makes 2 oil the rubber makes 3 The oil one takes 11k, the rubber 8k

You have to tech 2 oil research levels to add 1 more oil and then another 2 to get 2 more oil. The rubber is the same but its +2 and +2.

This makes synehtic TERRIBLE compared to vanilla. You basically have to invest 2 slots and 19k production and more research slots to get anywhere near what you get in vannila. This means we need rubber in asia more badly the ever and we really need to make sure joe has the help needed to make that happen. It also may mean that we HAVE to get a land route to siam secured through turkey and the middle east and siam has to claim all the rubber otherwise were gonna get convoy raided getting our rubber.

If we do that then the axis can focus only on the oil production side of things. Even then its gonna be a slog at 5 oil max per refinery(less until late game tech)

That land route is bulgaria/greece,turkey,iran,sinkang,china. Assuming joe wins china and we don't let russia justify and take iran that will remain open.
One of the consequences of the revised synthetic oil techs is that it keeps the Axis oil hungry.
This craving helps reproduce the Axis' historical thirst for oil in far-off lands...to include Iran and Iraq.

Also, the not-quite-enough synthetic rubber production helps drive game action in South East Asia.

From a game perspective, the quest for resources motivates players to act.
Without such shortages, we might not have a wargame, but a different type of product.
Last edited by Bill on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92914Post Bill
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:12 pm

After Stellaris (and other games, perhaps) If we end up playing another round of HoI4 before Man the Guns is released, which mod will we be using?

Alex has come up with an update to the mod that we just completed.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1563083107


Improved Historical MP 0.3.PNG
Improved Historical MP 0.3.PNG (126.46 KiB) Viewed 238 times
(very nice changelog, Alex. Professional looking)


DESCRIPTION
0.3
- Lowered static Anti Air damage by ~10%
- Lowered Air Defense of Strategic Bombers by -10/20/30% for 36/40/44 model.
- Rebalanced Air Doctrines so that BF Support get a ~10-15% advantage early war in aircombat while the other two later catch up and have ~15-25% advantage when doctrines are completed.
- Increased the research cost of air doctrines by +25% for all levels except the first.
- Added some starting technology to USA ( Trucks, 1934 Light Tanks and Basic machine Tools ).
- Split Carrier NAV and NAV to be different techs instead of subtech.
- Moved NAV to the Bomber tree and Heavy Fighters to the Fighter tree.
- Added research connections between Fighters - Heavy Fighters and Tactical - Strategic Bombers.
- Removed the German reichskommisariat decisions in the East.
- Moved 10 VP from Sicily to Milan ( to ensure Italy's capital end up in the North in face Sicily is bypassed ).
- Moved 5 VP from Vladivostok to Sverdlovsk ( to ensure Soviet's capital end up in the Urals instead of Vladivostok if Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad falls ).
- Lowered the port level of Vladivostok to prevent supply from being shipped there.
- Removed 3 VP from Malta so it cannot hold out if the Mediterranian is closed for UK.
- Removed SOV claim on Petsamo after Winter War and add AI Finland strategies.
- Buffed 250 PP theorists to give 0.08 XP.
- Buffed TAC strat bombing in doctrines from 10% to 20%, added agility for TAC in Battlefield support.
- Allow UK's Shadow Scheme after 1937.07.01.
- Added Italian Atlantic fleet designer gated by Atlantic Fleet NF and switched the existing CRDA designer to coastal defence.
- Added unique Motti tactics to Finland ( -30% width and very strong ).
- Changed widht of bridge and withdrawal tactic phases to 2x-20% instead of 2x-25% ( -40% total ).
- Scrambled width from alot of other various tactics to provice between -15% and +10% combat width, to make width less predictible.
- Fixed Atlantikwall not building in puppets.

0.2
- Added 150 PP from NFs and a changed Zaibatsus effect for Japan to compensate the unintended changes to PP and factory output from permanent war with China.
- Increased plane losses from Kamikaze mission by 20% and reduced Kamikaze damage by 25%

Here are the changenotes for the mod we played for the last 11 sessions (WPO 2018 Fall game):
SpoilerShow
0.1 ( Changes from Alex MP mod 1.5.4 )
- Added a Chinese state in Central America with 90 VP to prevent them from surrendering ( Japan needs to keep suppressing partisans )
- Changed Neutrality Spirit ( Sweden and Switzerland ) to make justifying war against them prohibitivley expensive ( allows removing houserule )
- Added Neutrality Spirit to Turkey
- Lowered overall supply from infrastructure by 12.5%
- Lowered overall move speed by 12.5% ( to help model more historical marching times for infantry )
- Doubled convoys needed to transport supply
- Added a total of about 100 VPs spread over 19 different Western Soviet states to give Soviet partisans more teeth ( should require about 24 extra Axis divisions to suppress this ).
- Added a total of about 35 VPs beyond the Urals to compensate the above impact on Soviet Surrender.
- Moved the Infra Soviet get in random states from NFs to specific states behind Moscow so unlucky "RNG" won't help Axis logistics.
- Removed org regain and reinforce rate penalties on Soviet Shock Penalty Spirit.
- Lowered Air attack penalties on Soviet Shock Penalty Spirit from -40% to -30%.
- Increased planning penalty on Soviet Shock Penalty Spirit from 50% to 60%
- Soviet Shock Penalty Spirit is now gradually reduced in 3 steps, 30 days each after initiated.
- Removed the 4 hour block for retreats/canceling combat ( as a test, if it feels awful we can put it back ).
- Reduced org recovery by -70% for tanks/sp and -33% for everything else, including doctrines.
- Increased max org by double for tanks ( from 10 org to 20 so not as drastic as it seems), also including doctrines.
- Increased org recovery reduction when moving from -20% to -40%.
- Reduced low org recovery speed from +100% to +70% to have attackers suffer longer from low org speed penalties.
- Increased low org penalties speed from 80% at 0 org scaling to 0 at 50% org to instead be 90% at 0 org scaling to 0 at 60% org. ( Only applied on attack move ).
- Increased % org lost on conquering an enemy province from 20% max org to 25% max org.
- Reduced base speed of infantry by -25% and speed of mobile units by -33% ( except mechanized which were slowed less to always be speed upgrades to motorized ).
- Improved Organizational Leader (FM Trait) from +2% reinforce chance to +3%.
- Improved Inspirational Leader (FM Trait) from +10% morale to +15% morale.
- Reduced Defensive Doctrine (FM Trait) from +30% Entrenchment to +20% Entrenchment.
- Improved Offensive Doctrine (FM Trait) from -10% org recovery reduction when moving to -25%.
- Increased PP cost of Harsh and Harshest occupation by 0.01 each, and increased manpower from Gentlest and Gentle to make them more attractive.
- Changed Closed Economy to still export 10% of your resources, so some will always be available for trade.
- Lowered manpower gained from Conscription laws "Extensive Conscription" and above, as well as added another level called "Massed Draft" between Service by Requirement and All Adults Serve
Alex's acknowledgements:
For complete previous changelog. See file in mod.
Many thanks for CrouchingLemur for his great mod More Unit Levels
Many thanks for Chondrite for his great mods Strategic View Adjustments and Allied Construction Projects
Thanks for feedback, suggestions and bugspotting to the active MP groups I play with as well as the WPO group and for modding help from Myzael, Kallar, Beethoven and SpeedKat.



https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1563083107

Alex_brunius
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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 92943Post Alex_brunius
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:35 pm

About Synthetics, they are intentionally kept weak since there is no easy way to model their limited use IRL. Had Germany during WW2 gotten more than what in HoI4 is about 40 - 70 oil out of their Synthetics they would instead have ran out of coal to covert!

Synthetic rubber is still decently strong if you grab all techs, this historically became huge in USA and big in Soviet as well after Japan took east Asia. When comparing their increased building cost also consider that factories of all types were made alot more expensive in the mod as well to stop runaway CIC spam early always being the best option. Synthetic rubber in Europe isn't that hard since Germany get a NF increasing output by +2 extra rubber, for a max of +9 rubber per building ( and each rubber building just cost 8000 ). You can compare this to 11800 for a single CIC which can be traded for 8 rubber.

Another reason for the split is that it simply felt super weird to pay for Synthetic oil as USA ( when you only need rubber ) or Synthetic rubber for Japan/UK ( when you only need the oil )

As Bill writes weaker synthetics also serve the purpose of providing more value to oil and rubber rich areas that often become the battlefields. The dynamic of oil and synthetic oil will change in MtG anyways so that will be very interesting to see what we can do with it! If Paradox has any sense of history they have done the same as I have in the mod, made Synthetic fuel weaker than in vanilla where Germany easy can get 300+ oil just from Synthetics.
aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
So Alex, we just finished a hell of a long game. I'm at work, so I cant dig up some key stats on the game, Bill is our resident statman here. But we ended in late 1947 after a success invasion of Nationalist Spain, successive spears into the eurasian underbelly at Sinai and Kuwait to go along with the long grindy war across 1000's of miles along the interior of central asia.

Let's give some feedbacks!! My thoughts...
Very interesting. We ended a game in the Swedish group last week, Tokyo fell in late 1944 and Berlin fell in May 1945 after being nuked by USA. We normally play only speed 1 though after 1941, to have time to micro all the air, land and navy sufficiently. Sometimes even with pauses or 2-3 players coop on Soviet ( especially if they go to war with Japan ).

aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
Air War: One of the issues everyone faced was the whack-a-mole air war. Even though the USAAF had profound numerical superiority, I was spread all around the globe and often needed to migrate my focus to grain sufficient air superiority for nukes. Even with the ramp up time, it was often too difficult of the Axis Air Marshal (Unbutu iirc) to see shift in my Air Power and respond before it was too late and nukes had landed.
I can certainly see how it's a problem to respond if you need it to defend against nukes. Their intention is to allow defense against strategic bombers. I'm not sure it makes historical sense that you should be able to switch forces to defend against a "surprise" nuke attack though?
aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
Off the top of your head, is there a defines value to account for the rate of increase in Effeciency based on re targeting air wings?? I ask, because the issue really came from having too little time to rebase aircraft. It became a game of range and airfield positioning for the guys on defense.
There is one for each type of plane. These are the vanilla defines values ( in the mod IIRC we boosted NAV massivly to prevent the Carrier Wing wipe bug )
EFFICIENCY_REGION_CHANGE_DAILY_GAIN_CAS = 0.888, -- How much efficiency to regain per day. Gain applied hourly.
EFFICIENCY_REGION_CHANGE_DAILY_GAIN_NAVAL_BOMBER = 0.192, -- How much efficiency to regain per day. Gain applied hourly.
EFFICIENCY_REGION_CHANGE_DAILY_GAIN_TACTICAL_BOMBER = 0.192, -- How much efficiency to regain per day. Gain applied hourly.
EFFICIENCY_REGION_CHANGE_DAILY_GAIN_FIGHTER = 0.888, -- How much efficiency to regain per day. Gain applied hourly.
EFFICIENCY_REGION_CHANGE_DAILY_GAIN_STRATEGIC_BOMBER = 0.072, -- How much efficiency to regain per day. Gain applied hourly.
aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
Also, I think Operational Integrity gives too much advantage. The USAAF just massacred technologically superior Luftwaffe throughout the war, using numbers and really high agility ratings. In most cases, the Luftwaffe needed a 1000+ plane advantage to see parity in kill:death ratios.
You'll be happy to hear that Operational Integrity was the main target of the rebalance of airdoctrines in the 0.3 version of the mod. I'm not sure I got the values right ( since air is tricky to balance ) but the goal is that the German CAS doctrine should have the best fighters early on, and alot of the bonuses in Operational Integrity and Strategic destruction were moved and increased further down the end of the tree, so that these "allied" doctrines still become the most powerful in the end. Operational integrity might need a small edge over strategic destruction though, otherwise it has no real value, but it shouldn't be more than at most 5-10%.

aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
Nukes: Nukes serve far more of a purpose as a tactical weapon. Dropping War Support really doesnt do much. I'll let Greyhound ellaborate, which he has already. But now the war is over, he can offer up more on the subject I think.
Agree, I haven't had time to look much at all on that ( besides my quick check in the other thread here ). But I totally agree that it would be really cool if you could balance it so that Japan surrenders if all their convoys get raided, they get max strat bombed and get nuked a few times ( and lose all islands to USA ).

This would also add a real serious incentive for Japan to defend these islands to the last man, as was done historically.
aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
Gibraltar: I think Gibraltar needs to be modelled better. As of now, it's impossible to hold as the geography isnt represented. Generally speaking...high risk, small force operations are pretty not modelled in the game well. I always envisioned a fight over the Rock would be between a couple thousand German commandos and the defending garrison. It would involve all manner of special tactics, from frogmen, to paras and special water born equipments.

Absent this, I think the best bet we could go for would be to offer up either a single province connection which would reduce the width to 90...or even better and make that single connection a cross-water connection, turning the single attack vector into an amphib. I would have to imagine that any successful attack on Gib would require the absence of the RN.
I seen some other mods add impassable terrain to limit it to a single province approach and I like this solution as well, I don't think I have time to add it before MtG hits but it's on my list of things I want to do.

aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
Air Regions: Some Regions are ridiculous. As we both not, that probably wont be addressed in MtG. I could work on redrawing some SRs. I could probably set it up as a separate mod and you could incorporate if you like it. This would take a while, I dont have much free time.
I actually made an effort to find a mod I could get permission to borrow smaller airzones from but I found no one that I liked really. My main concern is I want smaller airzones in the Pacific, Americas and remote parts of Asia/Africa. North Africa is still quite long as well and could use a split.

Most mods just add lots of Airzones to Germany/France, and I disagree thinking this size of airzone is actually fine, it's better to strive towards making all airzones more similar in size.

If you share my ideas on roughly what needs to be done, and have the time to spare I would be happy to include it into the mod when we both feel it's in a good state.
aphrochine wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am
I'm sure there is more, but it's still early where I'm at and my brain is fully running.

Thank you Alex!! You're mod does a great job, and I'm pretty sure we would not have been afforded a 1948 game if not for it.
Thank you for providing great feedback! I just invaded half of Japan in 1943 a few hours ago playing as USA in one of my MP games, and it was a hell of a fight with the Japanese player sacrificing 2500 kamikazes over 2 months to sink alot of US ships and troop transports, but not enough to stop me from just barely taking Tokyo!

We are also having alot of fun with the mod so we don't plan stop working on it anytime soon.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 93154Post jmland
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am

Alex,

Minor syntax error probably somewhere in localizations.....

Generic Air Warfare Theorist is returning attribute "air_warfare_doctrine_research" in place of "Air Doctrine Research"

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 93168Post Alex_brunius
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:15 pm

jmland wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am
Alex,

Minor syntax error probably somewhere in localizations.....

Generic Air Warfare Theorist is returning attribute "air_warfare_doctrine_research" in place of "Air Doctrine Research"
Thanks for the report. I can't reproduce that though. What nation? Do you run another mod?
The only change we have done is increase the XP gain from the 250PP theorists from being the same (0.05) to being higher (0.08), we haven't changed the Generic Air Warfare Theorists at all AFAIK.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 93169Post jmland
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 pm

I made the (erroneous) assumption that it was a generic error affecting all generic "Air Theorists", but I just checked and that is not true.

I was playing Malaya.....

This being the case, it's probably in or related to the Malaya Ideas file, "Thomas Windsor" Air Warfare Theorist

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 93172Post Alex_brunius
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:25 am

jmland wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 pm
I made the (erroneous) assumption that it was a generic error affecting all generic "Air Theorists", but I just checked and that is not true.

I was playing Malaya.....

This being the case, it's probably in or related to the Malaya Ideas file, "Thomas Windsor" Air Warfare Theorist
OK. That's not an error in the mod you found, but in the base game. I have reported it to the devs.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 93173Post Bill
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:21 am

jmland wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 pm


I was playing Malaya.....
Joe, very good catch regarding the air theorist. (Correction, the Malayan air theorist).

It looks like you really want to play as Malaya, don't you?
Put your ideas to the test.

Under your steady command, Singapore would be a hard nut to crack.

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 93175Post Alex_brunius
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:16 pm

I'll also just note that I would appreciate if in the future you can check if an issue is also present in the base HoI4 game before writing about it here. That way I can focus my efforts better on making the mod better and not on report every bug in the base game :) ( Not that there is anything wrong with that either though, but you don't need me to report bugs on the base game! ).

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Re: Modder's notes for "Improved Historical MP" by Alex Brunius

Post: # 93223Post Alex_brunius
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 am

New version with some minor changes uploaded to steam here:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1225601850

Changelog 0.4
- Vichy ceding fleet to UK on Operation Catapult allows Case Anton.
- Fixed Case Anton being possible after Italian Claims on France NF.
- Decision to disabled plane production and research for AI (barring Spains for SCW)
- Rebalanced Airdoctrines again to reduce the difference between OI and BS.
- Heavy Fighters Naval attack values brought inline with other fighters to not make them OP at Kamikaze.
- Modern tanks speed also lowered same as other tanks were in 0.1.


From now on I plan to rotate between the 4 different older versions of the mod replacing the oldest one, so that we always have support to keep playing an older version for at least half a year ( Assuming major mod updates happen no more often then every 2 months ).

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