Winter 2019 Game Thread

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harbringerxv8
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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94097Post harbringerxv8
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:24 am

I agree. Given the speed at which we're at war, etc, we might as well stick with vanilla for this round, then switch over to Alex's mod after the conclusion of the game.
-Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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Alex_brunius
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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94101Post Alex_brunius
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:18 am

ummd wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:09 am
Changing the mod mid-game is technically possible.... but sure brings some headaches. Not the least of which is keeping it updated with the new beta patch that might land before the weekend.
I recommend against changing mod mid game. It can cause all sort of odd results. I know for example that a savegame from the mod won't even load in vanilla, and I'm not sure if I tested the other way around, even if it would load there is no guarantees for what strange results can happen.

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Brother Lobo
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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94116Post Brother Lobo
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:42 am

When I load the save I took at the end of last session my game crashes whenever I click on Ships/Naval Map OR try to run the game forward. I also downloaded the save Bill posted and I experienced the same thing.

Both are 9-10-1937 at 7:00.

I then ran a NEW HOI4 game with the WPO mod enabled. The game crashes in the same manner.

I then disabled the WPO mod and ran a game twice without any crashes. I also reloaded saves from these tests. Everything worked fine.

The WPO mod is the culprit. How do I fix this issue?

Is anyone else experiencing this?
"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." - Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis"

greyhoundgames
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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94125Post greyhoundgames
Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:56 am

Mine is the same. I noticed the checksum has changed. This means they have patched something in the game since we played last(a new beta update basically)...
I get a bunch of errors if I launch it with the debug option. I think likely I just need to recreate the mod using the new files as a starting point. i will have that done today some time.

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94128Post greyhoundgames
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:49 am

So while updating this, I can see what they are doing. For one it seems like they made certain naval missions provide way more supremacy then others:
MISSION_SUPREMACY_RATIOS = { -- supremacy multipliers for different mission types
0.0, -- HOLD
1.0, -- PATROL
1.0, -- STRIKE FORCE
0.5, -- CONVOY RAIDING
0.5, -- CONVOY ESCORT
0.3, -- MINES PLANTING
0.3, -- MINES SWEEPING
0.0, -- TRAIN
0.0, -- RESERVE_FLEET
1.0, -- NAVAL_INVASION_SUPPORT
},


I also see a massive upgrade to depth charges(about 2x maybe?)

They also added this:
CONVOY_DEFENSE_MAX_REGION_TO_TASKFORCE_RATIO = 3.0, -- each taskforce in convoy defense mission can at most cover this many regions without losing efficiency

So i guess less ships can convoy escort more zones

Lobo, i have updated. Give it another go. It worked for me.

Bill
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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94133Post Bill
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:09 am

greyhoundgames wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:49 am
So while updating this, I can see what they are doing. For one it seems like they made certain naval missions provide way more supremacy then others:
MISSION_SUPREMACY_RATIOS = { -- supremacy multipliers for different mission types
0.0, -- HOLD
1.0, -- PATROL
1.0, -- STRIKE FORCE
0.5, -- CONVOY RAIDING
0.5, -- CONVOY ESCORT
0.3, -- MINES PLANTING
0.3, -- MINES SWEEPING
0.0, -- TRAIN
0.0, -- RESERVE_FLEET
1.0, -- NAVAL_INVASION_SUPPORT
},


I also see a massive upgrade to depth charges(about 2x maybe?)

They also added this:
CONVOY_DEFENSE_MAX_REGION_TO_TASKFORCE_RATIO = 3.0, -- each taskforce in convoy defense mission can at most cover this many regions without losing efficiency

So i guess less ships can convoy escort more zones

Lobo, i have updated. Give it another go. It worked for me.
Thanks to the Grey_Joe Team for tailoring a mod to our needs. Many thanks for the time and effort.

Also, thanks to Alex for his work on his mod.

If Sauron has his way, one day One Mod will rule Them all.

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94135Post jmland
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:10 pm

Grey

Yeah, they loaded a complete new defines file (3k new data in it). Basically what will have to happen is take the NEW defines file, input your changes and upload to the mod site.

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94136Post ShockoPopper
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:17 pm

Axis team - looks like I'm going to miss tomorrow, unfortunately. Hopefully won't impact the game too much. Life happening. :(
"We're Marines! We took Iwo Jima! Baghdad ain't poop!"

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94137Post greyhoundgames
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:33 pm

Joe, its already been done and uploaded. Check it out.

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94138Post greyhoundgames
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:42 pm

As shocko is not making it, I logged into the save and setup his stuff to best function without him present. I saved this without any time passing. I believe that will not cause any problems.

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Brother Lobo
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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94139Post Brother Lobo
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:12 pm

greyhoundgames wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:49 am
Lobo, i have updated. Give it another go. It worked for me.
Problem solved. Thank you! :D
"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." - Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis"

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94149Post greyhoundgames
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:05 pm

So mikey made a good point about the allies being the typical loosers and the axis making a killer plan stacks on top of that. In retrospect that is a very valid point. I over-strategized and it has not been fun for a lot of the players involved. I would be happy to play on the allies side for the next game as that will tie my hands more on what historical disruption I can cause.

I apologize for how that went down.

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94150Post Bill
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:59 pm

The Axis beat the Allies fair and square.

There's likely a range opinions about that perspective.

Here's how I came to the conclusion that the Axis beat the Allies fair and square:

For every Axis move, the game allowed an Allied countermove.

The Allied countermoves depend much on the available information. The more critical pieces of information are available in-game:
  • The game provided information that the Axis was going for an early war
  • The game provided information that in September, 1937, the Euro Axis had approximately 206 divisions versus 113 Euro Allied divisions (with 14 in England). This allows the Axis to generate overwhelming combat power in a place of their choosing.
  • The game provided information that the Euro Axis had approximately 233 warships versus 435 Euro Allied ships. A reasonable interpretation of this naval force ratio is that the Allies have control of the seas.
Sure, there was some missing information: The game did not provide information of...
  • "where is the Italian fleet" (that was a question asked among the Allies during the planning session).
  • "How much fuel does the enemy have?"
With absence of information, guessing is allowed. "What is the Axis' most likely course of action? What is the Axis' most dangerous course of action?"
greyhoundgames wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:05 pm
I over-strategized and it has not been fun for a lot of the players involved.
Instead of the preposition "over", the preposition "out" would be an apt description.

This is a thinking man's game.

I'm satisfied with the conclusion that the Axis out-thought and out-strategized us Allies.

-------------------------------------------
As for changing my perspective that the the Axis won fair-and-square, I'm open to hearing insights from others. For example:
  • in the game we played, were there occasions that the game mechanics did not allow for an Allied counter-move?
  • There is the important issue of "maximizing the most amount of fun for the most amount of people." In a wargame, fighting a war is an important feature...not being able to do so may not provide satisfaction to a wargamer.
  • The houserules allow or limit certain actions. Reviewing the houserules may improve the game.

Looking forward to others' opinions

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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94151Post greyhoundgames
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:12 am

One thing har and I are discussing is modding in a year restriction on certain german focuses. This keeps the anti rush changes within the scope of the game rules and not a house rule.

Also Fio(i think) noticed a decision that UK has that probably needs to become commonly used. They can commandeer the french navy after capitulation if they do it before Vichy fires. Perhaps we institute a mandatory pause for this action to take place.

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Brother Lobo
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Re: Winter 2019 Game Thread

Post: # 94154Post Brother Lobo
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:45 am

greyhoundgames wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:12 am
Also Fio(i think) noticed a decision that UK has that probably needs to become commonly used. They can commandeer the french navy after capitulation if they do it before Vichy fires. Perhaps we institute a mandatory pause for this action to take place.
Nixon discovered this during the test game where I was France and he was the UK. It requires a human player to be in both countries iirc, as UK can send the offer and France can accept. There is a brief window where this is possible before Vichy.

I would be in favor of banning this option altogether. It gives the UK an enormous free fleet. Ask yourself, why would UK/France ever NOT do this?

In reality, here is what actually happened to the French fleet- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling ... _at_Toulon
Bill wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:59 pm
The houserules allow or limit certain actions. Reviewing the houserules may improve the game. I'm open to hearing insights from others.
I don't recall anything in the rules that says: "If something seems gamey, all rules no longer apply." I understand why certain players felt this way, but I feel compelled to remind everyone that Greyhound's master plan was completely allowed under the rules that players agreed to pre-game. There was ample time pre-game to consider the possibilities. Pre-game discussions are why early war with China is no longer unrestricted. For some reason, early war in Europe via NFs was never really discussed.

I think we should also revisit the idea of Unaligned China being able to join other alliances early in the game. Perhaps if the Chinese player chooses not to form the United Front their choice of alliance should be prohibited until at least 1940 so Japan has a fighting chance. Without this, I fear every game from now on will result in China ditching the UF and being packed full of Allied or Soviet units to prevent it from ever falling (unless Japan scores a knockout early).

Another idea along these lines was proposed by Nixon prior to MTG. I would amend to "join the Allies or Comintern," if we adopted this route.
1. If Japan has declared war on the Allies or the Soviet Union China may join the Allies. But not via game edit. These must go down the long 2-3 year path that Bill went down of attacking and absorbing all of the warlords and kicking them out of the United Front until China is the only one left. Until such time the Allies will have to content themselves with military access and lend-lease.

2. If the Allies or the Soviet Union declare war on Japan, China can never join the Allies. They will have to content themselves with military access and lend-lease.

The benefit of this approach is that it gives all players a choice and creates naturally reinforcing costs and benefits. Japan may not stab the Soviet Union in the back and attack because that allows China to join the Allies. The Allies and the United States may not decide to launch an early war against Japan if China still has a violable chance of survival because China could never become part of the faction.

Lastly, as to the next game- if we do another historical-ish game, I’d like to play Japan again since I basically got 1 1/3 sessions in this game and barely even got to the use the navy. I’ll leave it to Nixon to decide if he would want to play Manchuria again with me, but considering that our resident Black Knight never surrendered, and the Mandate of Heaven is still unclaimed, I suspect he may be interested.

For Harb- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." - Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis"

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